1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:18,000 What has happened to the flying saucers? For better than 20 years, flying saucers have 2 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,240 been popping in and out of the headlines. At certain times across the span of years, 3 00:00:22,240 --> 00:00:28,320 they have been brilliantly fake news. Some have, though, even of the top, top UFO stories, 4 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:33,640 have had a way of fading out slowly, often giving way to pressure, mere, concerning, 5 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:39,120 but equally unruly UFO stories. But that is likely fading out in a proportion of another, 6 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:46,080 more dynamic story in another area of the news. The American preoccupation with the UFO phenomenon, 7 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:53,360 whatever it is, has been apparently decreasing. With the release of the common report, some 8 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:58,640 people think the whole matter of flying saucers is at an end. With the flights of Apollo 11 9 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:04,480 and 12 and the transmission of space pictures that are beyond dispute, some people ask how 10 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:11,720 do we cannot obtain UFO or flying saucer pictures that are beyond dispute. On the other hand, 11 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:16,600 some people believe that with the retirement of the Air Force from the field of UFOs, a whole 12 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:24,200 new can of worms or flying saucers has been opened up. I guest tonight for 13 years the director 13 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:30,400 of the National Investigating Committee for Aerial Phenomenon, NCAP, Major Donald Keel on the 14 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,720 long-distance firm, and here in the studio, one of America's best known artists and lecturers 15 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:40,280 and writers in the field of Uphology, Earl Lipp. Major Keel, welcome to this podcast. 16 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:42,040 Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. 17 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:49,640 What is the Uphological verdict on the common report? What do Uphology people, what is my 18 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:57,320 catch, people who are appointed with UFOs? Well, we worked very closely with them in order to be 19 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:03,000 sure that they would have all the good information available, and that was a definite request. We 20 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:09,000 helped train the field teams and we kept on until we found out that they were following a negative 21 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:15,480 course, obviously intended to wipe out any beliefs in these things. Is it your belief, 22 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:20,440 Mr. Ruben, that this was a preconditioned course? I won't say that it was clear ways, 23 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:29,080 I would say that the effort starts. Dr. Kahn is a man, and I know I think, and I believe that these 24 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:34,280 things could be explained to the other evidence, which is the usual Air Force claim. And then later, 25 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:40,520 I was wondering, asking, what about the person who was the Air Force, 26 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,760 who was the Air Force's real information? He said, well, a lot of people believe they are, 27 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:51,240 I don't think so, but maybe they are, and even if they are, I don't care much. And we thought that 28 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:56,120 was an extremely odd statement for a man who was supposed to be in charge of a NECA project, 29 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:03,400 although which of the scientists on the project, the question is, and NECA, and trying to get answers. 30 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:09,640 But in the end, the Kahn report examines only about 98 cases out of some 11,000 or 12,000 31 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:15,160 on record. And we have made available hundreds and hundreds of the best for students, 32 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:20,760 which is in the names of hundreds of top-rated observers, veteran pilots and scientists, 33 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:27,880 electronic experts, even astronauts. And which astronauts? He never interviewed a single one 34 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:35,000 of these people, Kahn did not. He confined himself, most of these interviews, I think a little bit, 35 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:40,280 Jonathan, were with people who, versus one man who claimed that he had met a man who was out in 36 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:46,040 Nebraska. They took him to the Kahn audit project and hypnotized him to see if he could get his 37 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:53,160 history. But that is about the wildest extreme that you can get. So we, our opinion of the Kahn report 38 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:58,600 Well, we stopped putting him with cases. Which astronauts' names did you give him? 39 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,560 I said, which astronauts' names did you give him? 40 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:11,800 He saw three UFOs, one of them, and that photograph still has never been explained, 41 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:17,960 although they were tense. There were several others who had excited objects, 42 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:22,680 none of them in a polo, but they never just get the details on that, but Jonathan has those 43 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:30,120 cases on file. But Kahn later said that, well, there have been windows of those things were smudged 44 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:35,720 and these men were under nervous pain and very dizzy and so forth. And he replied that, well, 45 00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:41,560 to me that implied being competent. And there's nothing more incompetent, no one more incompetent 46 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,560 than flying any type of machine today that they're going to highly pay that to us. 47 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,840 I forgot what John was saying, was Mr. who first reported the... 48 00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:51,880 The fireflies. 49 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:52,680 The fireflies. 50 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:53,320 Yes, well... 51 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:54,920 We found out what those were, didn't we? 52 00:04:54,920 --> 00:05:00,600 Those things were apparently going to be something connected with the capsule itself, 53 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:06,520 things that keep flakes, flakes and so forth. But this other object was a large thing, 54 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,120 a photograph that took the object with the projector right there right outside. 55 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:16,200 What we learned from the NASA people was that the fireflies were actually ice crystals. 56 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:23,720 Ice crystals, you see, they asked us and had an elimination system that passes out of the capsule 57 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:29,320 and what they do is they sort of, they avoid touching toilets while the plane is standing in 58 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:35,000 the station. But when they're out there in orbit, they sort of don't know quite what's for it to 59 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:40,920 use, but get that day into outer space. And what John Grandfell, as fireflies, 60 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,560 were actually urine crystals. 61 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,640 Well, that was a later explanation of the first one was they thought that it was something 62 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,360 something flaking off under the... 63 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:56,360 The exhaust, the cat exhaust, but that was later discarded and then this other was brought in. 64 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:02,040 But those reports, I don't consider important because they were all very tiny things. 65 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,720 I'm talking about objects of considerable size that have been reported. 66 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:11,240 Well, in the grand case, the ice crystals were nevertheless unidentified flying objects at 67 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:12,200 least for a while. 68 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,600 Technically, yes, very yes, that's right. But I don't think any, I know we never considered them 69 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:23,080 of something of, uh, suddenly extremely important. We thought there was some logical explanation 70 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:28,600 which we found shortly while in the McKinney case there never was one and we followed that 71 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:36,120 very closely for over two years. But of course, that's just one case. The main way of evidence 72 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:42,280 in the UNFOR thing is there's never been a complaint. You have over 3,000 top-rated observers 73 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:47,880 and they go from well-known scientists on down to about $100,000 of all of the military services, 74 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:53,800 all the major airlines. They brought as well as here tower operators, radar trackers, 75 00:06:53,800 --> 00:07:01,160 satellite trackers, besides very expert observers on the ground, people who are intelligent men 76 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:05,240 and women, uh, all and many, but I'm talking about the people who are specially trained. 77 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:11,240 Now, here's where all of them are walled, uh, they're incompetent or they were deluded or 78 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:16,200 bikes for drillers or something. And that means all of them. I don't mean 99 or 90 percent, 79 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,720 I mean 100 percent. Oh, some of those reports, it's right. 80 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:25,320 Well, we could for 10, 5 hours just reading names, which would impress a lot of people, I think. 81 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:31,720 But, uh, this is all on the record and the Kahnnen project. And they got around that very neatly 82 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,080 by simply evading back to everything that happened before the project opened. 83 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,880 You mentioned with regard to the man who was compiling, I guess it was, Kahnnen, 84 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,840 who said to refer to himself as unagnostic. Was that the word you used? 85 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:48,520 Yes. Uh, amusing that term. Does that mean that there's a feeling that ufology has a kind of 86 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:54,280 religious quality to it? No, he meant by that. He said, I'm unagnostic means I am a disbeliever. 87 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:58,680 I do not believe, but I, uh, if you can prove it to me, maybe I will believe it. 88 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:07,160 But since then, he has said it was a quick type of operation. And, uh, uh, he's been in the report, 89 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:13,000 he said that many power witnesses get together afterwards and talk to them about the stories 90 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:19,560 that he's told. In other words, there's no credit to the master witnesses for being honest, 91 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:26,920 careful, and reliable people. Uh, this was the, this was the way they did a long time ago, 92 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:32,440 when the effort started out. You shouldn't really blame the effort, they were taught a spot. It was, 93 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:37,880 it was excitement of people hysterical. Uh, people, people had been buried on the highways or in 94 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:45,320 the aircraft by, uh, by flying jets or other UFO objects. Uh, and it was actually a desire to 95 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:50,760 play their turn. So the policy was to, uh, explain it in a way and put this possible, whatever it 96 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:56,440 seemed logical. And several times when the first accident took place, they changed it to another one. 97 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:01,320 Now, I learned that people were connected with this. I learned in the airport, 98 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,400 they pressed jets to the field of the project. And they didn't like it any more than the people 99 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:11,480 that were, uh, from batting them because they said, but we're up against it here. Uh, we have to try 100 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,960 to find some logical answers. In some places there weren't any. And the airport secretly 101 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:21,320 has proved at long term, you know, that these things were not anything made on their side, 102 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:25,320 something that was real and it was superior to any other made devices. 103 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:26,520 How do you know about made use? 104 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:33,720 I can't nail it down at the moment, but I have in my possession a document which is next 105 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,800 to it. You missed the existence. I was told that anyway, but three airport 106 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,600 thousands officers who were connected with the investigations, one of them is a director of 107 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:49,480 intelligence. It was, it was true, but, uh, they simply did not feel that it had to be released. 108 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:54,600 And General Vandenberg fought very hard against releasing it. Uh, and that was when the policy 109 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,280 was changed to completely funky. 110 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,920 But we don't always know that military men are always right. We know that General was 111 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:05,320 more than in 1967, but we were winning the war in Vietnam. The next thing I knew, 112 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,600 in 1968 came along and we had the Pet Offensive. But we cannot assume it just because men are 113 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,400 belong to the Air Force and what they conclude or what they say in documents are necessarily correct. 114 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:21,160 So that too, but this thing was not one man's opinion. This was an evaluation by a large group 115 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,680 of people who had been on this for a long time. 116 00:10:24,680 --> 00:10:26,520 Thinking for the Air Force then as a body? 117 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,480 A special body assigned to evaluate these things including 118 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,840 civilian fighters as well as, uh, Air Force judges, people and others. 119 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,760 Major, let me ask you to hold on a moment. We have a commercial coming up in a moment. 120 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:45,320 I want to come back with our guest Roger Brown, who's keyhole and, uh, Mr. Irmett. 121 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,880 And I asked about the meaning of the Air Force retiring from the UFO business. 122 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:54,040 What this may mean to UFO research? What we can look forward to in the future, 123 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,720 or not look forward to in the case maybe. We'll be back after these words. 124 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:02,920 Now gentlemen, what is the, the retirement of the Air Force from the UFO affair? 125 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,520 Why did they get out? Please say, why did they get out? 126 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,000 Uh, is there a question to me? 127 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:10,680 It could be major, yes. Why not? 128 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:16,280 All right, now, it may be interesting to know that this is the second time the Air Force has made 129 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:23,160 the identical announcement. To say that that's, uh, a particular quote, all sightings were explained, 130 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,800 natural phenomena, delusions, folks, so forth and so forth. 131 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,760 Then they went underground and for approximately a year and a half, 132 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,440 our investigations were conducted in secret and the reports were kept secret. 133 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,320 Then this, then there was an outbreak deciding that the soap bank, that they had to, 134 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,320 well, come out of the investigation and then they said they had met it at the party that 135 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,440 had never been closed. This is exactly what's going on today. 136 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:55,480 All right, uh, that is a, an air defense directive which states that, that any object, 137 00:11:55,480 --> 00:12:00,040 unknown object which is picked up in the skies, um, is definitely moving under control, 138 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:08,040 which is tracked by a radar or seen visually must be investigated and it's possible intercepted 139 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:13,480 and Air Force jet intercepted and sent up under the command of Air Defense to try to 140 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:18,440 force these things down or identify them. Now that is just the thing that it was 141 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,080 last year or 15, 10 years ago. 142 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:22,840 Well that would be logical wouldn't it maybe? 143 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:27,240 Right, and the, the project is not perfect, they are just saying in effect this project 144 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:32,920 blue book is closed, they may have changed the name, but then they have said this is not a project 145 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,920 and then they go on and they will say, uh, there is a new, uh, 146 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,840 organization here and we're going to do this, but they, Air Force is still 147 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,920 violating the standardness. You see, they, they hope that the Connor Report 148 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:49,320 will sit these things down completely and we can see that with the purpose a long time ago 149 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:54,360 with the fire, the Air Force concerned, they, they gambled, but this word happened because 150 00:12:54,360 --> 00:13:00,440 that Connor was, they ignored it and they figured that, uh, uh, he probably was going to be very 151 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:05,480 hard to convince. Then it was a split among scientists in that project and two of them got 152 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:10,120 fired, essentially because they were trying to prove to be different with it, but then anyway, 153 00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:14,280 uh, this unexplained evidence still exists and there are hundreds of pilots who are just 154 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:19,640 waiting to take, to come forward, when some of the ridicule is lifted, come forward in the body 155 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:24,920 and say, look, here is the evidence, we saw it, we saw these things closely, many people bought 156 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:29,800 the plane saw them, they were, they were photographed, it's there, and this is not fooling about it 157 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:35,240 and get it out the open. Now that's exactly what we've been trying to do for years and coming 158 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:42,280 up, what do you mean, close? Well, uh, two or three times in the excitement, excitement in 1957 159 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:48,600 and later on in 65 and 66, there were so many settings pouring in that even Air Force pilots 160 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:54,680 were putting them on record and, uh, Air Force intelligence almost lost control. The newspapers 161 00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:58,040 were kneading in them and say, come on, it's time you were talking, what's going on here? 162 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:03,560 So, they finally, they took my pillow out, stung me on something, in one case, 163 00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:08,360 my man came out with one of these large contact planes that I, I talked with two or three space 164 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:13,960 men that, when I landed near my field or something like that, uh, and that's just as I, and immediately 165 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:19,800 all of these serious things ended, but behind it, they kept that right on and it's going on, 166 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:25,320 they spent a very nice amount of money and today, he was, if you look at right down inside of it, 167 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:30,040 you would find that there are not only some very high effort sources, but there are other people 168 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,680 connected with the government who are involved in this. 169 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,240 Major, and, uh, and Mr. Nebel, any, Mr. Morales, yes. 170 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:41,160 Well, that's, you know, the silent member here, and I want to hear what Major had, 171 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:47,480 any comment from you, Major, about the psychosexual, uh, aspects of flying saucers, you think that's 172 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:52,440 interesting? Of course, there are lots of people like that, I've been involved, most of those contact 173 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:58,520 cases that, to reinvestigate it, well, it appears to be the delusions, uh, actual true delusions, 174 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,200 people believe the things that they were doing up north, so, oh, I don't know, we're playing 175 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,280 fast, so people can understand something. What about the case of the Brazilian farm boy who claims 176 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:12,040 that his bastard landed, uh, I believe, with his, uh, Antonio, and he claimed that he was raped by a 177 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:18,360 woman from outer space? I stopped Alan the night I told him, many years ago, I'm a doctor, I remember 178 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:24,760 Dr. Cornyn, he wonders, he gets a little juicy reading about this and about this, and then he 179 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:30,040 came up with the book and this thing was, uh, described, but, uh, I think that this has never 180 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:35,160 been really nailed down, and it's sort of one of those things that trails off in the thin air, 181 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:40,440 seemingly, I like that, because the many things, it's almost, uh, you can't say anything about 182 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:45,080 police, but I would say that, uh, I wouldn't believe that, that's not how it happened. I, I really, 183 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:55,240 I, I am curious about his face. Well, I think we ought to leave off on that. We are talking tonight 184 00:15:55,240 --> 00:16:00,360 to Major Donald Kehoe on the long distance flight, and with us in the studio is the same 185 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:05,640 new following as Earl Met. Uh, now if you want to call us early tonight, by all means do, because 186 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:09,480 we're going to open the lines early, and as a matter of fact, in just a moment, coming back from 187 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:14,200 the next announcement, I think before we go to the telephone, I, I have that one more question 188 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:20,680 remaining, maybe two. Do there exist any actual artifacts in space, or are there new rocks, or 189 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:26,280 we got, you want me to answer this? There are major, anybody? Uh, major, just jumped in, uh, 190 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:32,200 I was gonna, I was gonna say was that I, Ballamagorda, as you, or rather, um, Tucson now, uh, 191 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:38,760 Collins, and of course, has had these pieces of, uh, uh, maybe, you know, it's a very, very pure 192 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:43,240 material that the Air Force had borrowed a small piece from her some years ago, and which is 193 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,840 understandable, after all the stuff that was burned very readily, but they wanted another piece 194 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:52,200 which could be used, because there wasn't too much of it again, but that, uh, reportedly was from 195 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:57,880 the exploded one off the Brazilian coast. Now, I do know that, uh, Dr. Robert... 196 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,120 Robert, you wrote what? Uh, you wrote, pardon me. 197 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,040 So you wrote about the Brazilian coast? 198 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:08,760 That was the story that we were told, as how the pieces were, uh, obtained, but then of course, 199 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:13,160 there was the late, uh, Dr. Robert Smith of Canada's Project Magnets similar to our project, 200 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:18,600 uh, starring, uh, Project Redge, Project Twinkle, Project Bluebook, etc., and, um, uh, 201 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:26,120 he claimed that he had been handed a piece while in Washington by Admiral Nose, and over this very 202 00:17:26,120 --> 00:17:31,160 microphone many years ago, Admiral Herbert D. Nose, and you know him well, I may do that to you. 203 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:38,600 Yes, yes. Uh, broad member, uh, he, uh, like that, uh, he told, uh, me right here, and told the audience 204 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:46,200 radio audience on the air that he had actually handed this piece to Dr. Robert Smith. Now, 205 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:52,840 half of the piece of that kind had been analyzed later by Dr. Smith in, uh, Shirley Bay up in 206 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:58,360 Canada where the Project headquarters was, and it was very, very unusual material. Frank Edwards 207 00:17:58,360 --> 00:18:04,120 knew a lot about it, and over these very microphones also, uh, told about it. They had little, uh, tiny, 208 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:10,920 uh, pimples in the metal, uh, flowers and stuff, and were in a small area under the microscope. 209 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:16,840 And the first part of this metal was, it seemed, it seemed, there was no bender for it. It was a 210 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:21,480 fern's metal unknown to us. That's all I can tell you about. How about you, Major? 211 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,880 Yes, I knew about that. As a matter of fact, the Air Force knew about that also. Yeah, there's 212 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:30,760 one thing that I should speak to you quickly. Um, Mr. Daly, you mentioned about the lack of pictures. 213 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:37,320 In the Haaland Report, they go into the, the photographic evidence, goes very detailed, 214 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:42,120 there, in the investigation, there's, there's, there's no organ pictures and states in there that, 215 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,680 so far, as they can find out, these people saw exactly what they reported. They were very large, 216 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:53,400 unknown, disc shaped, or, you know, disc shaped objects, uh, approximately so wide, so forth, 217 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,960 maneuvering at high speeds, and that, all this, and it goes into the, to the reasons why they accept 218 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:03,400 this as probably a genuine UFO. But up in the front of the report, Dr. Collins says, 219 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,480 we were unable to make a photogrammatic analysis of this picture. 220 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,160 Well, what do you mean by genuine UFO? 221 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,040 That's the word of the analysis, the photographic, I can put it, the report, 222 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:18,920 by the second, appears to be exactly what they said, that a three case, two other cases in that 223 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:25,320 report, that's what, uh, contradicting Tom is all words in the beginning, people said this appears 224 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:30,040 to be a genuine UFO, meaning as genuine and as an object. 225 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:35,480 Well, what is a genuine, that's, that's what I got up to, reported by the RIS in England, 226 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:40,920 and the report of this, uh, just by chasing one of these things and seeing it, and in fact, 227 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:42,280 then we got it at the same time. 228 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,560 Well, now Major, how would you define a genuine, unidentified flying object? 229 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,840 A genuine, unidentified flying object, uh, to me, means one which is, 230 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:59,800 fine object leaving at underexpected control, which is not any nice aircraft or spacecraft, 231 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:05,640 but any type of device made on Earth, which is, uh, pretending that it was described superior 232 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:11,080 to such a, uh, complete reversal in a matter of seconds and acceleration to a tremendous 233 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,040 speed and so forth. 234 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:17,400 That type of thing, uh, UFO is capable of doing that, and you never expect like that, 235 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:22,280 so much as this is apparently a genuine UFO, meaning we're not going to explain this away 236 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,120 in the usual, in the usual answers. 237 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,200 Well, then in a moment we're going to go to the telephone, and I just wanted to read to you a, 238 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:35,320 a report, a lab report on an artifact, issued by the Smith MRA Company, 239 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:41,080 Chemist Testing Inspection Engineers, seven, eight, one East Washington Boulevard, Los Angeles, 240 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:45,880 21, California, uh, it is dated May the 5th of 1966. 241 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:52,280 Report of qualitative spectrographic examination, ash 74.07%. 242 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,200 Major constituents, 10% of the greater led this. 243 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:03,320 Intermediate constituents, 2 to 10%, iron stover, sodium, zinc, potassium, and tungsten. 244 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,640 Minor constituents, that is to say 1% or less. 245 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:14,200 Tin copper, silicon, cadmium, boron, antimony, aluminum, nickel, chromium, business, 246 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:20,840 malibu, zirconium, cobalt, magnesium, manganese, calcium, vanadium, other elements, 247 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,240 non-detected qualitative sense of mercury, present. 248 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:29,240 Now this is a spectrographic examination that was issued to a, a copy of the report given to me 249 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,720 by a law people, Daniel Fry. 250 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:32,760 Oh no. 251 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:33,080 Yes. 252 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:34,200 Oh yes. 253 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:36,120 Now this is like ground. 254 00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:36,840 I know you did. 255 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:37,560 I know you did. 256 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,760 And also, uh, uh, no, no, Major Keyho groaned. 257 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:41,640 Oh, yes. 258 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:42,360 Well, you did it. 259 00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:43,000 Was it all right? 260 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:48,360 But, how can you hear the man who said he had seen these things? 261 00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:50,920 He said he had a ride on one in 1957. 262 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,840 I think that's what a white-sand incident. 263 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:58,600 He, he showed me, he brought this artifact in the studio and showed it to me, look at the 264 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:05,240 washer, that here is the, the honest spectrographic analysis I have ever seen. 265 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,000 He learned me to bring in a piece that I had that has a spectrographic analysis made by 266 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,560 Kent State University and by some other places. 267 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:17,080 One very, very important one that I, uh, I can't relate, uh, the word is made, uh, 268 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:21,400 well, it is under those conditions that they did it for me secretly. 269 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,320 But if I have the analysis, I have it all in writing, I'll be there, happy to search it. 270 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,680 And, uh, it's so hard, it'll cut glass, just like a diamond. 271 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,400 And yes, there is not one trace of carbon in it. 272 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,560 Now, what are you telling us, Earl, that anybody, 273 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,320 anybody, anybody can produce an artifact? 274 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,760 No, this is, this is a plain and rather unusual way. 275 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:39,080 Yeah. 276 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:39,640 That's not all right. 277 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:40,120 Desert. 278 00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:41,000 Desert? 279 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,760 Uh, relatively, relatively rough terrain, I should say, in this country. 280 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:50,440 And, uh, after an object, it reportedly had landed apparently having trouble and then to 281 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:50,760 fall. 282 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:51,880 Now, an object. 283 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,680 Yes, an object of this kind of UFO type of object. 284 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,200 Then you believe it to be an object? 285 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:02,040 I do not know if the story is genuine or false, but it was told to me, the piece of metal was 286 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:07,240 loaned to me and, same thing in the earth, it was Robert Smith, that's Smith of Candice 287 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,080 Scott, he landed, who stated he felt, and maybe I'd be interested in knowing your act 288 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:16,200 on this, he said that he thought that any piece of metal, or hardware, as he referred to 289 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,960 this often, for a lot of space would be free of carbon. 290 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:24,280 This has no trace of carbon, and that's so hard, if like a diamond, it cuts glass. 291 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:29,480 And very, very hard, I spent hours trying to cut it with a molybdenum blade and finally 292 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:35,400 had a resort to power and then only was I able to saw through it with a, with a rubber 293 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,960 wheel that was in front of me with a diamond dust. 294 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:44,440 Well, getting back to the artifact and the possession of Dr. Thorne, what do you make 295 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:44,760 of that? 296 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,040 Does that, what does that tell you? 297 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,560 Anybody can make an artifact and that artifact's telling you nothing? 298 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,000 No, I wouldn't say that. 299 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:51,800 I wouldn't say that. 300 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:57,960 I think that it depends as much as anything, just like a sighting, a credibility of the 301 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:04,440 view of the possessor and in this particular case, I am very 302 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,760 questioning the gentleman who presented it. 303 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,520 I need to add here, Magick, before we take a telephone call. 304 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,680 Well, there's one more thing to, the diamond wheel to bring in the question. 305 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:22,760 I mentioned the first project, of course, this is a fabrication which my cap has put out. 306 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,360 We got it through the most committee. 307 00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:26,440 They helped us break it back to secrecy. 308 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,080 For years, the first United Eastings existed. 309 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,880 The first project, of course, went to 12. 310 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,960 We got them and they have their first extension of the original report. 311 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,240 The Air Force and Co. of these reports were the stance that seeked our confidential 312 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,480 momentum over one side and classifieds after they were forced to release them. 313 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:47,400 Now this thing proved that for years, while they were saying we are not withholding 314 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:52,280 a thing here, they were sitting on secret reports by cons and all kinds of observers 315 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,720 in the United States when there were some of the same support that ever came in. 316 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:56,840 Now that thing is available. 317 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:57,880 Anybody wants to defect? 318 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,160 As a matter of fact, that kept public that they're sending one. 319 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,760 Congress, anywhere in the paper manwork, two could go up to the NACF office. 320 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,280 1536 Connecticut Avenue, Washington, D.C. 321 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,200 They can see these documents and see this. 322 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,720 All this proof, proof of suppression of evidence. 323 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:20,120 Major, if you think the people think that the Air Force doesn't take some stock in this, 324 00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:25,480 how do they account for the fact that the Air Force has just very recently produced 325 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,560 the most interesting book, a very, very heavy book, I had it here before me, 326 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,240 that it's called, U.S. Auxing Related Subjects in the Amateur Bibliography 327 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,120 and Lynn E. Kato of Library of Congress has responsible for it, 328 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:40,280 is the Air Force Office Scientific Research that is responsible for the distance. 329 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:41,560 I know. 330 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,960 Well, if you think they don't take stock in it, 331 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:50,120 there's this report last year, Colonel Robert N. Truman, TIRM and Air Force Flight Surgeon, 332 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:55,720 Frank, in a KC-35 aerial tanker over Asia, on the daylight mission. 333 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,240 He read the policy up in the cockpit, exclaiming over the intercom, 334 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:04,440 and he ran up there to see it, and he was a huge, so-called object holding altitude, 335 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:09,640 saying altitude as the aircraft, apparently as if observing them. 336 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,320 And it was approved, the pilots and Colonel Truman were astounded, 337 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,440 they were watching it, the senior pilot radio presented receptors, 338 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,480 just below the little sign of hostility. 339 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,360 He really was flying anyway, just in case. 340 00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:25,400 And then he's very cautious, he tried to bank in for a force of work, 341 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,160 everything accelerated without a sight. 342 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,080 This is a report, a special report given to the Air Force, 343 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:31,880 and it's on the record. 344 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:33,720 Colonel Robert N. Truman. 345 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,920 Even Arthur Godfrey had a very close one. 346 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:37,240 What do you mean? 347 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:38,680 He was a good old guy. 348 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:45,480 As a pilot, coming into Philadelphia, a UFO was seen off his right wing, 349 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,240 he radioed the field, and the field said there's nothing up there. 350 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,000 He said, I know darn well there is, 351 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,320 and then the object went behind the plane, came in from the rear, 352 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,720 towards the left wing, and every move that he made, 353 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,080 it duplicated until it finally zipped off into place again. 354 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,400 But Godfrey said, well done, good, the pilot, 355 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,800 and his co-pilot was with him at the time, so they both listened. 356 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,120 What about the pilot for Henry Ford II? 357 00:27:12,120 --> 00:27:12,760 Yeah. 358 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,160 Henry Ford II and the Marine Corps officials, 359 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,280 our officials, and the company executive plane, 360 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,120 to the top pilot, and they saw this gigantic object facing him, 361 00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:26,440 and Ford directed the pilot to give a report to the aircraft. 362 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,320 We had the pilot's report, and he was absolutely baffling, 363 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:30,760 and everything kept facing him, 364 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,240 and Ford confirmed that he'd watched the full and hour 365 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,480 while it was watching, facing him. 366 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,720 Well, were they able to watch it when it was not facing him? 367 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,720 I tell you, I want to know the secret, but he complains here. 368 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:43,080 Who, me? 369 00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:47,480 If he has been one of those subjects, a psycho subject, 370 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,760 he's doing an awfully good job, and he's in the street. 371 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,440 Well, I don't know what he's saying up there, 372 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,160 and I wouldn't even speak to him, I don't even know him. 373 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,080 And I bet he doesn't even know me. 374 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:00,440 Well, I'll give you some more names. 375 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,760 Lieutenant Colonel Sam Cooke, who headed the Air Force, 376 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,400 and recently the Air Force, and tells his doctor, 377 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,200 he evaluated over 700 cases, 378 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,200 and he says these things are absolutely true to the extraterrestrial, 379 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,680 and he said we used to call the boys in 5th Street, 380 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:15,880 but the little blue boys. 381 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,440 That's what I'm disrespecting as a lad. 382 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,440 Maybe if we may, the phones are absolutely jammed, 383 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,680 and we really should open up the lines and give them a chance to... 384 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,080 I know they're calling partly because they want to talk to you, 385 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,800 no matter if that's probably mainly because they want to talk to you. 386 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,520 Next they will be calling to talk to Earl and Laf, 387 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,560 and certainly at least they will be calling to talk to me. 388 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,240 I think we should therefore better the phones 389 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,720 after we pause for these commercial ways. 390 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,280 Let's take a telephone call, shall we, from the Cleveland area, 391 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:43,880 and put them together with our guests. 392 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:45,280 Hello, you're on the air with me, 393 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:46,280 your key home isn't that? 394 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:46,780 Yes. 395 00:28:46,780 --> 00:28:48,840 I'd like to talk to my question to Major Keal. 396 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:49,480 Let's go ahead. 397 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,560 It concerns an article I came across that occurred 398 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,960 in the December 18th issue of New York Times. 399 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,160 Article mainly concerned the closing of Project Blue Book, 400 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,320 but in one part of the article it stated 401 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,440 that it retails Air Force Colonel Joseph Smith-Brian 402 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,040 with the acting director of NightCast. 403 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,880 Now if this is true, why wasn't this made known to the NightCast members, 404 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,000 which I am a member of? 405 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,080 Well, I'll tell you, this is going to be... 406 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,080 I knew that question was coming up. 407 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,240 There's been some confusion about this thing, 408 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,040 and it'll be clarified probably by the point of January. 409 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,800 There's going to be a board meeting. 410 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,560 What happened was that NightCast, 411 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,480 they were considering changes in the reorganization, 412 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,800 particularly in business procedures and so forth. 413 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,320 And I, frankly, for a long time, 414 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,520 I'd like to get under that and handle technical matters, 415 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,040 which I probably will do in the future. 416 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,760 But he should have been named as the acting president 417 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:43,480 of NightCast. 418 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:44,920 That's the corporation title. 419 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,120 He's the chairman of the board of NightCast, 420 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,440 and he is the acting president. 421 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,880 The Justice Marl's president, 422 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,640 while Gordon Moore was Secretary of the Treasury, 423 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,560 he was listed as the financial representative 424 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,720 because it has to be a replacement living in Washington. 425 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,040 So those were technical things connected with the corporation. 426 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:07,480 It was an error in the statement. 427 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,520 I think this was made known as NightCast's location, actually. 428 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,560 Well, yes, I'm sorry that was not actually, 429 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,560 I tried to get one asked earlier, 430 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,600 but I can tell you this, I believe that although there's been 431 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,280 a bad situation caught by the kind of report 432 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,360 which got to drop in public sightings, 433 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,760 apparently they don't come out in public, 434 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,040 we've had some trouble, but it looks now 435 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:31,480 as though things are going to improve, 436 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,160 and I hope any other members listening will be encouraged 437 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,720 to hang on, and I think in the near future, 438 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,960 there's going to be some very interesting developments. 439 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:40,840 Okay, thank you. 440 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:42,040 Thank you very much for calling, sir. 441 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:42,840 Carlson Fitzberg. 442 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:43,640 Hello, your hand here. 443 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:44,280 Thank you for waiting. 444 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,840 I would like to ask why some of the large organizations 445 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,560 studying the UFO problems, such as NightCast or APRO, 446 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,720 and who have access to the documents of UFO suppression 447 00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:01,800 and also the good photographs of unidentified flying objects, 448 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,960 such as those of the Conrad Ed Isle, 449 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,240 what good were they, McMinfield, Oregon sightings? 450 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:13,240 Why can't these be placed in the news media, perhaps on page, 451 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,240 so that we can counter the Air Force's closing 452 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,400 of the project, Google, etc., to keep this in the mind-eye of the public? 453 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,880 Well, let me quickly answer this to you, 454 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,520 and then I'm sure the major has some weird story for you also. 455 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,040 I have been a newspaper man myself, 456 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:31,880 two years as a Cleveland plane dealer, 457 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,440 and was called in at Specialist Time as a Cleveland press 458 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,280 while Louis Seltzer was the editor there, 459 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,840 and I know, I think the answer to your question 460 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,320 about the McMinfield case, also the Cundade Island, 461 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,400 because they're both excellent photographs, 462 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,400 or rather they were four down in Cundade. 463 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,880 But news-wise, this is old stuff. 464 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,880 These have been known for years, 465 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:59,880 and even Willie Lay, the late Willie Lay student of Dr. O'Beth, 466 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,800 was skeptical of those, 467 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,960 and yet he couldn't say they weren't real, the Cundade ones. 468 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,080 But I think that their answer would be, as newspaper people, 469 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,040 is these have been printed many, many times before. 470 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,040 Why should we reproduce these again? 471 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:17,320 How about that, Major? 472 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:18,840 Well, that's the general reason. 473 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,400 Of course, if they were to be reproduced 474 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,400 with authority statement by some top expert who would say, 475 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:27,960 these are old pictures, but they're the ones 476 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,600 that the Air Force has denied that we're real all this time, 477 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,760 and now here they are, and it's proof that they're real, 478 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:33,880 then you would get them all. 479 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:34,680 Right. 480 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,440 Back in the end, that it's very familiar, 481 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,800 when it came very close, when the Cundade report mentioned 482 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,200 this, that's practically, it wasn't genuine, right? 483 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,840 But I agree, you will all get these things back, 484 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,520 and it's very hard to buck the Air Force of Management 485 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,200 that everything is closed, because it's natural to respect 486 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,240 your institutions and hope that they're dealing straight with you. 487 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,160 And I'm not saying that they're being dishonest, 488 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,560 people that lay down the policy are following what they think 489 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,640 is the best policy for the country. 490 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,960 They've been there for like the CIA sometime ago, 491 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,920 so that in effect, a lot of people were dumb, 492 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,360 that wasn't the word they used, but easily bamboos 493 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:15,880 or something like that, and therefore, 494 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,400 that this thing should be debunked 495 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:18,840 because you get people excited. 496 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,160 You simply cannot right now get any big, 497 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,360 tough page to draw, unless there's some new siding, 498 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,600 or some siding that's broken out for the ones 499 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,240 that the Air Force is now investigating a secret. 500 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:32,600 You just can't do it. 501 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:33,960 I know some things that will break it, 502 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,320 and I've been trying independently at NICAP 503 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,160 to get some of these things open, 504 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,200 because in one case I know of, one case alone, 505 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,800 we're in this, we're breaking it wide open, 506 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,200 if you could get the group involved to talk, 507 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,280 involves about 35 pilots. 508 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,120 And it's a case that's been suppressed for so long 509 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,280 that in fact, nobody will talk about it, 510 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:57,720 unless you get to it or in it, 511 00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,320 and make sure you don't have a tape record 512 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,840 into your coat and so on, but something like that 513 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,240 will happen, eventually, and it will break, 514 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,400 and at that time, the people who've been 515 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,240 reviewing the book, so they wouldn't get rid of you, 516 00:34:09,240 --> 00:34:10,840 they just pull them out of their clutches. 517 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,000 I know a lot of people who've said them to us 518 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:13,960 and something to me, 519 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:15,880 confidentially saying they don't even mention 520 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,800 the city, the time, or anything, 521 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,000 as it ever happens, it comes open by all talks. 522 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,200 The matter has been a long, been a long wait major. 523 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:25,720 It's been a long wait. 524 00:34:25,720 --> 00:34:26,760 No, it's been a long wait. 525 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:28,920 Sometimes we've never heard of these things 526 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:29,880 that have gotten into it. 527 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:31,400 That's what I feel often too. 528 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,400 That's what you're as a writer, a lecturer, 529 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:34,280 that started this. 530 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,240 So, sometimes we've been trying to say that. 531 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,600 But don't you feel that the U5, this is a whole, 532 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,280 shouldn't take too negative a magnitude, 533 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,360 because this 136th national meeting 534 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,400 of the AAS, the American Association of National Sciences, 535 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:50,600 held up in Boston last year, 536 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,880 on the 26th and 27th of December this past year. 537 00:34:54,360 --> 00:35:01,000 When that took place, I understand that Dr. Kahn 538 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,000 then tried very, very hard to, 539 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,160 by sending out a seven-page letter 540 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,680 to all of these members of the Academy of Science 541 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,280 and even to Thomas Tain, 542 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,680 who is a minister of National Aeronautics 543 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:15,560 and Space Administration. 544 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,280 Now, if he's trying so desperately to 545 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,640 oppose him by a man who would be discussing 546 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:24,840 the usual situation, 547 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,280 I feel they must have added desperate. 548 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,840 And I think it's not his time that you, Alan, 549 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,360 and the producer here, Bill Baker, 550 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,880 and NBC are permitting us to give 551 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,320 the kind of information you're all going to do. 552 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:36,200 We are, Bill. 553 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:37,240 There's no question about that. 554 00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:38,360 I mean, stop it as well. 555 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,040 You're doing a great service because, 556 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:41,720 excuse me, I can't... 557 00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:42,920 The thing that this says, 558 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:44,440 they have been a big threat. 559 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:45,720 Probably, this is so hard. 560 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,640 One day, I was running a Gallup poll with that 46%. 561 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,800 But anyway, there are many other people 562 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,280 that are convinced there's something to it 563 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,320 and many are convinced, I should try to put that phrase, 564 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:58,200 to say so, 565 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,240 and these papers follow the official line 566 00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:02,760 as a rule, not only. 567 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,040 And until you get something so terrific 568 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:07,720 that they just simply can't be stopped. 569 00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:09,080 Like, some top man, he said, 570 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:10,680 like, I was here on it. 571 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,200 I helped initiate the policy. 572 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:12,680 It's wrong. 573 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,480 And here's the fact that with something like that, 574 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:17,240 we'll do it. 575 00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:18,440 And I think, honestly, 576 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,480 I don't think we can go on too much longer. 577 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,040 I would be surprised if 1970 ended 578 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,880 without some very surprising change in this thing. 579 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,320 Excuse me, one second. 580 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:30,680 Major Kehoe and Mr. Neff, 581 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,400 we have to pause for a belated station identification. 582 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,840 But Donald Kehoe can stay with us only another 10 minutes 583 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,600 though we're going to make the ticket benefit 584 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,920 by getting right back to the phones and doing business 585 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:41,800 with the customers. 586 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:42,760 Hello, you're on the air. 587 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:43,480 Thank you for waiting. 588 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,240 You know, one thing has always been a fascinating to me 589 00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:50,440 is the UFO propulsion system. 590 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,800 What do you feel is the type of propulsion 591 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,960 that these UFOs are using? 592 00:36:57,240 --> 00:36:57,800 Major? 593 00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,160 Oh, well, as I said, 594 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:00,600 I wouldn't kill myself for that 595 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,080 because we've had some of our technical, 596 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:04,440 scientific advisors, 597 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:05,560 and they always come out and say, 598 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,480 well, it's possible to play this and possibly that, 599 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,400 but the only person in there that's come out 600 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:10,920 made a definite commitment. 601 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:11,880 There's Obers, he said, 602 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,760 that was connected with the control of gravity. 603 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,240 And I understand how by having artificial gravity fields, 604 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,120 you can drag air molecules along with you 605 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,480 and cut down the friction you only have from heat 606 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,400 and you can get very high speed acceleration. 607 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,720 And without any of those effects, 608 00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:34,840 there's also changes defective to sonic devices 609 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,040 out of sound area. 610 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,440 But as for specifics, 611 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,840 I don't know exactly how the propulsion is. 612 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:41,640 I don't know. 613 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,920 I read about 200 scientific and technical explanations of it 614 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,160 and they told me I had a different idea. 615 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,880 Major, do you recall many years ago 616 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,640 the Cleveland Nephology Project, 617 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:54,600 which I've been the director, 618 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,560 along with the fine group down in Akron, 619 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,840 financed a book showing that 84 cases 620 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,480 that UFOs in Washington had at the time 621 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,480 where electromagnetic effects apparently 622 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,680 had solved the engines of autos and planes? 623 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:14,520 Well, I agree with that, but that's not... 624 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,320 We don't know how we tie it into the propulsion right, 625 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,120 although I have no doubt it's connection in there 626 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:21,640 of a force field. 627 00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:25,160 I thought the gentleman was asking 628 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,160 for specific explanation of propulsion systems. 629 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:29,640 Yes. 630 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,480 I don't think it, but I had no question 631 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,240 about the electromagnetic influence. 632 00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:34,680 I just thought I could throw that in 633 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,840 in case he was at all in doubt on that. 634 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,080 Yeah, well, you have been many cases, I reckon, 635 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,400 when there's still automobile addiction, 636 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,800 radio turnout like preachers have had that happen, 637 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,680 TVs and homes, electrical appliances, and so on. 638 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,680 And in aircraft, you've had radio directions 639 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,600 finders burn out, transmitters burn out, 640 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:53,560 receivers burn out. 641 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,000 And many things of that kind have happened 642 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,480 when UFOs were in close proximity. 643 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,440 And it's probably true that some things 644 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,760 of the unified field theory applies in there. 645 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:09,640 Electricity managers and their gravity 646 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,120 are all different phases of the same thing. 647 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,120 And I thought there are also electrical failures 648 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,120 when UFOs are not in close proximity. 649 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,000 Yeah, that may be true. 650 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:24,360 But the ones that I think are more probably true 651 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,560 are those where the center was relatively close 652 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,440 and there were enough witnesses nearby 653 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,160 and the car was seen to be stolen, so forth. 654 00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:34,840 Well, you have a single witness, I'd say, 655 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:36,120 I don't say the man is lying, 656 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,760 but it is a big help to have more than one witness. 657 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,880 There is another factor that is usually added 658 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:43,800 when we say the car is stolen. 659 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,880 We usually, well, we don't always, 660 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,200 but it is not unusual to hear that the dogs bark. 661 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,560 So it seems to be an equation between howling dogs 662 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,080 or frightened dogs and the appearance of UFOs. 663 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,880 Well, that was brought out in the X-ray case. 664 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,760 And, well, I was explaining, 665 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,320 who was for 20 years an airport chief consultant on this, 666 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,160 said until he began to criticize the airport's policy, 667 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:09,640 and that time for some strange reason, 668 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:10,680 his contract was ended. 669 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,560 But anyway, he only admitted the mob gas, 670 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,400 the other day, he said that he has written 671 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,640 a few reports to accept the message, 672 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,000 so certainly serious, and they have been investigated. 673 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,240 And since animals do have different ways of hearing, 674 00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:28,760 it's quite possible that they're getting 675 00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:33,800 vibrations some ways, or some kind of ways that we go here. 676 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,800 So you can't discount all of these things, 677 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:38,920 or tie them with UFOs, 678 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,720 they may not always be completely true, 679 00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:44,840 but there are some that have proven to be in the case 680 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,040 of electromagnetic effects. 681 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,400 There's a nice proof in there that I would personally accept it. 682 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,080 Another call from Cleveland. 683 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,000 Hello, you're around here, thank you for waiting. 684 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,640 I'd like to direct my question to Major Kehoe. 685 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:56,440 Go ahead. 686 00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:00,120 Throughout the years, most of my, as I recall, 687 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:01,640 about six or seven years ago, 688 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,760 I read it on this paper, one of the Cleveland papers, 689 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,560 involving the U.S. Navy and the Polaris missile. 690 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,600 I can't recall the year, but I assume it was around 1961 or 62. 691 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,800 That thing, Polaris missile launching is in the Atlantic, 692 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,000 I believe, and the Polaris missile was launched. 693 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:20,520 I don't recall what altitude it was, 694 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,200 but it was pretty high up. 695 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,840 That was barely two to L or two to Z. 696 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,200 I assume so. 697 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:27,080 I know that case. 698 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,320 I saw a copy of the laws on it. 699 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:34,280 The tracking locked onto a UFO much larger 700 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:35,880 than the Polaris missile itself, 701 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,080 and it was so close to the missile that the tracking 702 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,120 locked onto the UFO instead and tracked the UFO 703 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:43,560 rather than the Polaris missile. 704 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:44,840 That's right, that's right. 705 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:46,520 It did it for 14 minutes. 706 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,000 Right, this was significant to me from the standpoint 707 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,080 that it was acknowledged by the U.S. Navy 708 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:52,440 that they had a radar contact. 709 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,640 Well, I don't, there was just this picture, 710 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,680 I'm basing my knowledge of my particular entirely 711 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,440 or, if having seen, a photo step of the log. 712 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:03,560 Well, this is what I see. 713 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,400 Instead of a color, it's unidentifiable, 714 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,720 which is determined, maybe, as used a number of times 715 00:42:09,720 --> 00:42:12,360 where the Air Force uses or was identified. 716 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,600 Well, the reason it interested me is the fact 717 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,240 that I saw a brief article with only about four or five 718 00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:19,880 paragraphs and I never saw anything after that. 719 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:21,560 And I looked for weeks after that, 720 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:22,920 I couldn't appeal any more in for me. 721 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:24,120 I'll tell you where they got it. 722 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:28,520 They got it from NACAP because I wrote that particular report 723 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,880 myself and they put it in our publication for members, 724 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,720 which is called the UFO Investigator. 725 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,600 And I just think to remember putting in all the details 726 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,520 which I was allowed to use, I was not supposed to give 727 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,840 the source or anything, but I was down at Cape Kennedy 728 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,040 and talked with people there and one of the engineers 729 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,120 gave me a copy of that. 730 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:51,560 Fantastic. 731 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:52,120 Wow. 732 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:54,120 Thank you very much for calling, sir. 733 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:54,600 Thank you. 734 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,600 And I'd like to express my thanks tonight. 735 00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:58,920 I'll miss the mind of Major Dennis Keogh 736 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,000 who's spending this time with us tonight. 737 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,640 He's a busy man and I know that his branding this time 738 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,440 to us at personal expense to him, 739 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,440 and so we are delighted for having had this gift. 740 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:11,320 Thank you very much. 741 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,320 If you have any inquiries, I'll hand it over 742 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,120 maybe sometime I can come back and put this in 743 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:19,880 some interesting developments. 744 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,440 And it would be a pleasure to talk with your audience again. 745 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:22,760 Very good. 746 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:23,640 Thank you very much. 747 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:24,680 Let's go with the last one. 748 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:25,240 Thank you. 749 00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:25,560 Thank you. 750 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:26,440 Thank you very much. 751 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:26,840 Thank you. 752 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:27,640 Good night, Major Keogh.